[SIC] Talks #101: Mark Boutilier

“Season Two” of [SIC] Talks launches with Mark Boutilier, the NYC-based creator of shortform video for fashion fans and menswear insiders. Mark talks about how he got his start, curved a career in marketing, his content publishing style and on-camera approach to enaging viewers on Tiktok, Reels, YouTube and beyond. We also talk arriving at a personal style, Mark's favorite sources and inspirations, plans beyond the world of video, collaborative products, his new collaboration with Maximum Henry, and lots more. Mark is on IG here and on Tiktok here.

Here’s the transcript of our conversation, as recorded by Substack and rendered into paragraphs by Perplexity AI Assistant, with additional edits by hand afterwords.

Editor’s note: Perplexity’s version of “edited for length and clarity” leaves something to be desired, but this is 90%+ accurate.

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[SIC] Talks #101: Mark Boutilier

Ben: Okay, so welcome to a new era of [SIC] Talks, everybody. This is episode number 101. After, let's call it a summer break, I am returning in a new vehicle via Substack Live. I'm here with Mark Boutilier, who is a relatively recent acquaintance and new friend, but also somebody whose career I followed a little bit before we knew each other. He is a person who creates content on multiple social platforms, who speaks to, let's call it broadly speaking, a fashion and menswear space, who entertains through comedy analysis and access information. And just generally seems a good vibe. So when I met him in person, I was just like, oh, this guy seems cool. Let's see the shit a little bit. And then when the series came back up, I was like, it'd be fun to talk to Mark at some point. Then I got an update that you're releasing a collaboration on Friday with Cueva out in Greenpoint, which is right around the corner from my house. And I was like, okay, now you've got something to talk about. Let's get into it. What's up, Mark? How are you?

Mark: I'm good. How are you? You did a very good introduction of making my silly videos sound a lot more important and serious so I appreciate it.

Ben: Well, I look, I think the kind of videos you make, if not the ones you particularly make, are the currency of today's media ecosystem. Even news organizations are trying to figure out how do I make short lippy reports from the scene and translate, speak to the audience in the voice that they speak to each other. How did you get started in this whole thing?

Mark: I mean, there was time before 2020, but during COVID quarantine era, I was finishing up college. I was on my very last semester living at home. I went to school 15 minutes away, so I just commuted and I had all this free time. Right before that I was doing YouTube stuff with a buddy. We had this brand thing that never really panned out.

Ben: What kind of brand was it?

Mark: It was, I guess, streetwear, but we never released anything. We literally just were hand screen printing, dyeing stuff and trying different things to see what would work.

Ben: So it was your version of Karthik Research.

Mark: That's a very loose, you know, maybe more, I don't even know what to describe it as. It was just a glorified Etsy shop, in a sense.

Ben: Right, yeah, sure. It's a pandemic business.

Mark: Yeah. We were just trying different stuff. Once 2020 happened and I was stuck at home with all this free time, people were urging me to get on TikTok. I'm 27 now. I was 22 then, which doesn't sound super old, but early TikTok was really young.

Ben: Yeah, for sure. Well, coming out of Musical.ly, it's eight-year-olds dancing.

Mark: Yeah. I kind of had to get over that hump of it being weird at my age to go on and put myself out there. For whatever reason, I did so relatively quick and started posting frequently, literally three times a day because I had that much free time and boredom. No strategy at that point. That was just pure opportunity. I would do little fit checks outside, in the front yard of my parent's house. It wasn't until later on that I discovered that since the audience leaned younger, you could say things satirically or as a joke and everyone would believe you and it would run up the engagement. At the time I was just messing around, thinking this is a funny little joke, I'm on this silly app making silly videos. It wasn't until however many months went by where I realized I was building something, though most people weren't really receptive. I was getting a bunch of hate comments because I was saying stupid things that were meant to, I guess now “rage bait” would be the term.

Ben: Yeah, sure. Troll.

Mark: And it wasn't until later on where I thought, maybe I can pivot this if I wanted to.

Ben: The interesting thing is, I had an experience in college; I started writing for the school entertainment magazine and wrote the style society column, largely because it didn't exist and I wanted to do that. So I did it and would put things in there occasionally that were very obviously satirical. People would take them very seriously because they were in print. It was like, by virtue of the fact that this was published, it must be true. And they didn't detect the satire at all. I find it interesting you found the same thing through video. If it's on video, it's factual, or at least it was at that time.

Mark: I kind of played into it as long as I could, until it was sort of—sometimes I can still get away with it. If something goes viral, it goes onto, at that point, Facebook pages and all sorts of confusion about whatever you're posting. I did that for a while. Eventually, I guess the turning point was I had Jon Caramanica from the New York Times reach out. I thought I was being pranked or something because I didn't do any paid gigs or any sort of anything up until that point. He wrote this article about me and a few other friends who were also making videos.

Ben: Sure.

Mark: I had to explain to my parents that we had New York Times photographers coming to our home to shoot me.

Ben: That's amazing. And how did—how did Caramanica get put into it? Jon and I go back many years to when we were both starting out, contributing to The Fader or whatever. How did he find you? Was that through a James and Lawrence thing or something else?

Mark: I think he was just extremely tapped in. At this point, James and Lawrence didn't know who I was either. Maybe they did, but I hadn't gone on Throwing Fits or done anything like that. I have no idea. I wound up getting on a FaceTime—at the time I also didn't know who he was, which obviously, now I know he's a legend. At the time I was just wondering who is this New York Times guy reaching out to me, am I getting scammed right now?

Ben: Why hasn't he ever published this Kanye book that he's alleged to be writing?

Mark: But nevertheless, that was the turning point. For one, I had to explain to my parents what I had been doing this whole time, kind of behind their backs, because I wasn't going to say, hey, I'm making TikToks.

Ben: What path were you supposed to have been on up to that point?

Mark: I was getting a marketing degree and wanted to work in fashion, but also, when I was going through college, in my head, I thought, yes, I can move to New York and hope for the best. But I didn't have any leads, any real connections out there. I was getting a marketing degree and professors said there's a 90% chance I'm just going to work a random sales job, and that kind of sucks. I don't necessarily want to do that. I was almost starting to accept that might be my fate, and then it kind of just—I don't know.

Ben: So that is also to say you've never had a "real job," right? Never been on payroll, never had health insurance, never had HR training, any of those things.

Mark: I've never had health insurance and I told you about the dentist today. Yeah, not excited for that. I chipped a molar, discovered crowns are nearly $2,800 out of pocket. So yeah.

Ben: Okay, fair enough. Not for nothing, your image is your brand in a lot of respects; I would say this is definitely a tax write-off and an investment in your future. These two teeth here are crowns that I've had for 35 years. You're making an investment in a durable asset. You'll be fine; I know it will hurt, but you'll be all right.

Mark: Not the ideal time for it to happen.

Ben: Well, I'm sure you've got a Grailed marketplace or something that's a slush fund to help you fund fun stuff. That is actually an interesting question: How much do you have to consume, be it at retail, vintage, auction, or showroom visits, to be current in this role you've made for yourself?

Mark: Yeah, a lot of my early content revolved around thrifting and vintage. Very early on, it was mostly cheaper clothes I was purchasing, and it wasn't until I mentioned that article that I started slowly getting PR and stuff, starting from smaller brands and domino effects from there. There was definitely a period—a lot of creators have this period—I've noticed people who came after me, even friends now, where you're only wearing PR stuff. You're getting free clothes and you're excited, thinking you'll never have to buy clothes again. Once you get to the other side, yes, there are cool brands sending me stuff, and some of it is my style, but sometimes the fit is off, or it's the right brand but the wrong product. Now I'm a walking billboard of just new arrivals and you lose your sense of personal style, which I think can alienate you from your actual audience, which didn't want to happen because everyone was following me for thrifting videos and for me finding random stuff I enjoy, not brands sending me a $400 sweater that no one can necessarily relate to.

Ben: That the audience can't access. One of the things I've really enjoyed about your social presence over the last—I don't know how long you've been doing this, but I've only encountered it within the last month—is reposting old fit pics from decades past, seeing eras of your style evolving. Is that an acknowledgement that you're still figuring it out, a self-deprecating look at what a dumbass you were, or instructional to kids, showing how things will change? What's the thought process? I find it very charming.

Mark: I don't know if there even is one. That's the theme with a lot of my content: there almost never has been a super-calculated thought process. That even goes to if a brand wants to do a video and they want me to complete something written about what the video will be. I don't super know—sometimes I have the idea beforehand, but a lot of times I'm operating on how I'm feeling that day, making a video in the moment. I don't have drafts, a lot of it's not calculated. I kind of like it that way because it doesn't feel so much like a job when you're just doing it off where your head's at.

Ben: For those tuning in for the first time, [SIC] Talks is ostensibly a companion conversation to the newsletter I publish every week, which is a big companion of links. What I ask my guests to do is take a look through the links ahead of time and identify a few that jump out to them. We'll do that in a second. But this thread got something going in my mind, which relates to a link in the newsletter this week; it's a post called "Lore Machine meets dolorsolentium," an Instagram account posting AI-generated anime fanfic-type images. In that interview, the creator behind dolorsolentium says you have to post as much as possible to feed the algorithm: you will never know what goes viral, so your responsibility is to keep posting all the time. Where does your experience land? Is that true? Did it used to be true but not anymore? Is it more true now? Do you not care and just do what makes you feel good? How do you view this dynamic?

Mark: I see a lot of content like that: tips and tricks, how to go viral, but I feel it's different for every account. It's different for me now than five years ago, two years ago, six months ago. There's not really a rhyme or reason. When you put out a lot of content—when I first started, I was posting three times a day—it is easy to burn yourself out.

Ben: That was what occurred to me reading that comment. It sounds like a nightmare.

Mark: I thought it wouldn't happen to me. Early on, I thought it's just making videos, it's fine. But definitely this past year, there have been weeks where I hardly post at all, and it's not for lack of effort—just genuinely, there's nothing. I'm sitting there every day, wondering what video I'll make, but it's just not there.

Ben: Does that have a negative or positive effect on your audience relationship? Do they get bummed, leave, demand stuff, or wait patiently? How does that work?

Mark: That's the worry. Social media moves so fast, and I know I have an audience that likes my stuff and cares; I meet people in New York who say nice things, but I don't even know if all my videos are reaching them because the algorithm doesn't necessarily reward inconsistent posting. There are other things, too; Instagram just started this repost feature, and since then my engagement has gone down.

Ben: Oh, interesting.

Mark: I'm sure it'll go back up when some other feature drops.

Ben: Is it because you're not reposting, because others aren't reposting you, or because someone else is reposting so much it's sucking all the air out? Any sense why?

Mark: The feature's basically already on TikTok: you click repost, and if I make a video, you repost; it shows to some of your followers, lives on your profile in a repost category. I think it's the lack of other people reposting.

Ben: Got it. This is the challenge—it forces you to adjust style so more people repost, or wait it out since this feature is temporary and others will come.

Mark: Yeah. Not everyone has the feature yet—like my girlfriend Aidan, she doesn’t have the feature yet

Ben: Shout out Aidan.

Mark: So it's like, how can I be like getting all these reposts when like not everyone even can?

Ben: I asked the question not to even probe, but because I'm literally unfamiliar and maybe that's because I'm old as hell, but maybe it's because it might not be available to me yet.

Mark: Yeah, exactly.

Ben: I just feel like you sit in such an interesting space. That's why I wanted to talk to you. You sit in such an interesting space because on the one hand, the algorithm is your opportunity [and] on the other hand, the algorithm is your anchor. And navigating that and feeling good about it, wherever you are along that continuum, has got to be a really interesting … kind of challenge.

We're talking also because you have a collaboration coming out Friday at Cueva with Maximum Henry, the New York-based leather goods brand. Aside from that, what else do you do to keep your brain straight? Do you act as a behind-the-scenes consultant, Are you a music composer? Do you cut people's hair?—what else besides the videos?

Mark: Right now it mostly is just the videos. My main source of income is the paid partnerships: Mark x eBay, Mark x Puma, Mark x whatever. I don't really get money off streams; YouTube has some monetization but I'm not consistent there. Mainly that's the only source of income. I've done some consulting, but really one-off. I think that's interesting; it's hard to legitimize when I'm still the goofy TikTok guy. But I can actually help your business.

Ben: There are progressive marketers listening; Mark's open for business. Happy to introduce you.

The fact that you're the goofy TikTok guy in some conception is interesting; you can lean into that or say that's the character but in meetings Mark is more serious, less expressive. So, to what extent is your on-air personality 100% Mark, and how much is a conception or character?

Mark: I definitely put on a speaking-to-camera voice; that's something I think a lot of people have—a radio DJ voice. Otherwise, even in meetings, I'd argue people are goofier than they present in a business meeting. For me, it's mostly being myself and making content I want to make. I'm not going to make something I'm not interested in. A lot of people put on a bit for the internet—maybe that's good to a degree—but I try to post on my own accord without thinking about it much.

Ben: It needs to be your... at the end of the day, because you are making pronouncements about things you're reviewing, if there's not an imprimatur of authenticity, people will think it's just a piss-take, bullshitting, or a troll.

Mark: Early on, a lot of my takes were just trying to get a rise and sometimes I still do it. But I think people understand when it's satirical, sometimes they don't, but that's also what satire is. I thought you were all satire until I saw you walk in streets in 10-foot long jeans and realized you are about it.

Mark: I don't have those anymore, unfortunately. Selvage jeans literally 10 feet long—Naked and Famous does an April Fool's Day thing with 24-hour preorders. I was one of 20 people that actually ordered. Stupid, but kind of cool they made them.

Ben: If you're going to say you're doing the thing, you have to do the thing, even if it's patently ridiculous. Fake products live on SNL, and anything advertised as real has to be real.

Ben: All right, let's get to the list this week. What jumped out at you among the stories I sent?

Mark: If I'm being transparent, I don't know if I got all the stories.

Ben: Definitely possible; it's a new format. If things didn't come through, I sent an email with links but let's talk about something style-based. "Boy skirts for one, boy skirts for all"— from the Articles of Interest podcast doing the history of men in skirts. Are you familiar with Avery Trufelman and her series?

Mark: I do not think so.

Ben: Avery is a fashion journalist, podcaster, does an excellent series called Articles of Interest, both newsletter and podcast. This current one talks about the declaration a couple years ago that men wear skirts now, interrogating that depending on where you are—Scotland, New Zealand—men have worn non-closed leg lower garments for years.

Mark: Wow.

Ben: When presented with a challenge, like “wear a skirt,” does it strike you as fun or an empty provocation? It's like the 10-foot jeans—you've worn those, now put on a skirt.

Mark: Definitely. A skirt can be jarring but also—it depends. My friend Tanner works at Thom Browne, that's a much different thing; maybe not as accepted by someone who isn't into fashion, but there are men's skirts that are more accepted. They're part of a Thom Browne code—ankle shorts, ankle pants, no sock. There's a period on For You page of streetwear styling: baggy jeans with pleated skirt, plaid tartan over. I think A$AP Rocky was the one that like maybe kind of popped out in that. And then everyone was like, Oh, let me like, it's my turn to try that kind of thing.

Ben: Are there people you reliably look to in the way people look at Rocky? If he puts it or brand puts it on, it works for you?

Mark: Not really. I'm not someone who looks to celebrities for style inspiration now. There was a time I'd look at people online, fashion YouTubers, many I'm friends with now. Maybe brand owners back in the day, but now, style inspiration is from friends, lots who wear similar sizing so I get to try things. I look at people who aren't necessarily trying to throw a fit but just look cool.

Ben: That's always interesting; I grew up skateboarding but I'm a dyed-in-the-wool preppy, what I was raised with. Brands like Beams Plus, I know I'll always find something I love—it has that Japanese twist on American heritage. I don't know that there's anybody, except maybe my friend Shawn Joswick who always looks amazing. Do you know Shawn he has a denim repair business and a denim line called Joswick which you should check out anyway; I'll send it. Anyway Joswick is a beautiful man and he always looks amazing but other than him i don't know that there's anybody that i look at like oh i want to look like that it's much more in the realm of of of brands but other than him, nobody I look at as "I want to look like that." It's more brands for me. So where do you draw inspiration from?

Mark: There are stores and brands I can go to and rely on. From a store perspective, I do a lot of vintage. Non-vintage, one of my buddies Eddie runs Huiben Shop—short stint in Chinatown, now does showroom visits, maybe looking for a space. He put me onto lots of Eastern Asian brands and some older archival stuff. First time I went over, I learned about five or ten brands, many I'm tapped in with now, even friends with some designers. Kozaburo, local from Japan, lives here—his styling is incredible. Soshiotsuki won the LVMH prize today, and Eddie was carrying him for years. He was early to the game.

Ben: Okay, Huiben Shop. Cool. And I like true vintage—there's an archetype of the true vintage store, in Atlanta, New York, Philly. They're different but you know what to expect: flair, bell-bottoms, boot-cut denim, ringer tees, old leather jackets—the usual culprits.

Ben: Those aren't my universe—bell-bottoms or flares evoke an ick for me from my youth, as style of the prior generation. Teens now look at how 20-year-olds dressed as teens—generational thing.

Ben: Basically, if you're a denim company, don't send me flares, just straight ones.

Mark: Send me the flares.

Ben: What other brands do you gravitate to?

Mark: Big Craig Green guy, Kiko Kostandinov.

Ben: Those are - Craig Green in particular is complicated. Are you drawn to the complication? Are you drawn to the sort of flexibility of how that stuff could be worn? Is it just that nobody else has the balls to put it on and so you stand apart?

Mark: I mean, I feel like at its core, like a lot of the fits are very like pretty standard. Like it's like a work jacket silhouette. It's just like this crazy fabrication and like, you know, strings hanging off of it and like the other. That's my style: flashiness or interesting elements but still subdued or worn in simple ways. Not to get into the belt already, but that's also how I design: cool on its own but not overpowering an outfit.

Ben: Let's jump to the belt collaboration with Maximum Henry, New York-based leather goods. It comes out Friday at Cueva in Greenpoint—party between 6 and 9. Friday is party, Saturday is all-day pop-up, then Monday online release, mostly pre-order unless belts are left from the drop. Maximum Henry does wholesale, but it's mostly made to order. How did the conversation start?

Mark: It was supposed to just be a video—touring the studio or how to make a belt. Weeks went on, he was busy, the idea lingered, and I thought maybe we could make it a custom belt; then take it further—actually release the custom belt and do more around it. He was down. He's worked with my friend Albert ("Edgy Albert") before. Me and Max said if you ever want to do something, but I didn't have pressing desire until now.

Ben: Is this the first collaborative product you've worked on?

Mark: Not the first; I've done jewelry collaborations—almost all my jewelry is collaborative, but niche. Collaborations with a single jeweler in Australia—hand-makes everything, shipping was hard, no money made, but I was happy with the product and wear it every day. It's cool to put out something you can look back at years later and still love. I learned through that jewelry is niche—most fashion guys aren't into jewelry or fine jewelry. Necklace was $550; I worked to keep prices lower than usual, but it's still a harder sell for my audience.

Ben: Sometimes, a purchase can be a gateway to new appreciation, and they’ll never forget you, but it can also make people feel weird afterwards.

Mark: People did buy and are still wearing it. As someone who worked at a secondhand store, I'm terrified of seeing my product thrown in a bin for $20.

Ben: It will happen; it's a life-stage change for a designer when you realize something you made and loved isn't loved the same way any longer.

Mark: That happened with my first t-shirt—directly inspired by a vintage tee I found at a thrift store; kind of a meme. Sold okay, not bad, but I probably wouldn't release it now. Not many people still wear it, which hurts, and it's a lesson for making physical products going forward.

Ben: I read something—a brand social manager talking about "posted is better than perfect." How much fine-tuning before you go live, or do you just post?

Mark: A lot of it's just posting it. Some videos get more into it, like even the belt video, showing the process of making the belt—that's important, and the main video I wanted to make before the collaboration existed. Max was really worried, wanting it controlled, whereas me and my friend Sean just go in and freestyle. Friends have series on TikTok/Instagram that are very polished, but I’m not super capable of that. I don’t come with the script.

Ben: You don’t have the patience/inclination?

Mark: It's a realness thing for me. Sometimes I don’t even want to know what I’m being shown—closet tours, studio visits—I’d rather just react and have that be what the audience sees. Obviously, there's editing, but I think even for designers, if you fine-tune too much, it can make them anxious/weird. It's better to let them talk and blab, you can always edit it later—better too much than too little.

Ben: By the way, Iolanda posted the link—"posted is better than perfect," advice from Rachel Karten's newsletter.

Ben: Speaking of closet tours, I do consulting for brands/agencies/publishers about super-formats (franchises you can execute repeatedly/modular/scalable). Do you think of closet tour as a franchise under Mark Boutilier Inc, or is it just when you feel like doing one?

Mark: It's a little of both. Closet videos—I throw the “Closet Crash” title on, just something to bring back. A manager once said I could take that title, make an Instagram account, and post those all the time—the way “Subway Takes” and other episodic series do. That sounds good, but it's also going with the vibes. The videos are hard to execute over and over and keep interesting, and not just show mass consumerism. I like getting different characters—a minimalist closet, maximalist, sneaker collector; but I’ve seen my series ripped too—not the first to do it. I don’t want to be the closet tour guy, just Mark.

Ben: Many things exist on a continuum: lowercase fashion (everything we wear) versus capital-F Fashion (runways, mags, premium). Do you find yourself moving toward one or the other as you get deeper?

Mark: I feel I'm somewhere between. Early on, I was into clothes, but in terms of fashion, I'm a grailed kid—a consumer. That's good for relating to people. I care about some runway shows, but I have friends who are human encyclopedias of designers, seasons, etc.—I'm not that guy, I don't retain it. I'm not built for that, but I value real-life experience, studio tours, talking to designers, firsthand interactions. That's more meaningful than watching runways or reading about them later.

Ben: Still go to the parties, drinks, see the people, of course. There's so much clothing, knowing it all is impossible.

Ben: Better to figure out what you like and your own point of view. So: What are your sources for having a point of view or staying up to date—publishers, individuals, locations?

Mark: A lot is talking with friends, like Tanner who works retail and sees stuff firsthand. I go into shops and see what's there, talk to employees about what's hot and what's getting interest. I consume a lot of social media—even if it's not always the best place, that’s what we do. Designer visits are an easy way to see things firsthand; if you go into a retail store, you see both ends of the spectrum, seeing how vision gets realized.

Mark: As I've gone further, I've met people—models, photographers, editors—and learned more about what different roles mean. Even for this event and playing a PR role, there are steps and things I thought I understood, but definitely don't. That's what keeps it interesting—I want to try all these different things.

Ben: Conversation is about curiosity—I'm interested in what I don't know and interpolating into what I do. No substitute for experience; had breakfast with a 27 year old brand strategist in training, talking about using AI to reach conclusions, which is good, but no substitute for experience. That's why everyone is searching for "third place," run clubs, events—you have to feel it to really know it.

Mark: There's so much stuff being put out all the time; if I don't do this event and pop-up, sure people will see the belt or the video maybe, but in terms of really seeing and feeling the product, experiencing it—that's why brands do events, panels, activating in different ways; it's not enough to list the product online. Even if it does lead to sales, you want people to be into it, attach emotion, be able to transmit that emotion and become advocates, remind themselves why it's important.

Ben: There's a Snobette story about Costco as end-of-the-line for fashion brands—it's where you send low-price offerings/diffusions, and Costco marks up less than retail so you get things cheaply. Anything in small-f or capital-F fashion you just won't mess with? For me, I'll never fuck with Skechers, because they've never done anything original, the entire brand is copying and style-jacking.

Mark: Any fast fashion brand—Minimal, Jaded London—some are worse than Zara because they're copying iconic designs, Grailed items, Chrome Hearts patch jeans, Rick Owens Creech Cargos, anything popular on the internet. Fast fashion is easy to avoid. The rep market, too—especially on TikTok, kids doing rep hauls, that's gotten wild.

Ben: My daughter bought a pair, with her own money under her own steam, a pair of rep Isabel Marant, um, whatever the, the high sneaker is l

Mark: The wedge sneakers.

Ben: Exactly. And knowing my way around shoes a little bit, I looked at them. The quality is pretty good. I don't know whether they're indistinguishable; I don't have a keen enough eye for, for the Marant stuff. And I said to her, “Look, I don't like the fact that you have done this, but I also wasn't going to give you $600 to buy a real pair.And you did this under your own steam as a, let's call it, a learning experience.”

In your conception, is there a room for kids to do that up to a point or not?

Mark: It's a huge convo. I don't know how old your daughter is

Ben: She’s 16

Mark: At 16, when you're younger, you make those mistakes. I wanted galaxy Kobe shoes I bought off a random sneaker site; thought maybe they're real, but they were fake. You have to make those mistakes. For younger people really into fashion and learning about iconic items, sometimes you can actually find those secondhand for the same price as reps. I've found crazy stuff thrifting or for little money. Living in New York is a cheat code—sample sales, etc. I worked at Buffalo Exchange and always searched for steals.

Ben: I think you're right—it's about getting in where you fit until you can fit somewhere else, trying to be disciplined so you get fewer, better things.

Mark: Kids are getting into this stuff at an earlier age. For me, everyone in school had Nike Elites; now, some want Tomerod sneakers—totally different price point, but if that's the thing, so be it.

Ben: There's also confusing New York teens with others; when I first came to New York, Faith Popcorn reports said teens' number one brand is Prada. As a 23-year-old making $13 an hour, I wondered how they even know what Prada is. But that's just New York, not other places.

Ben: Anyway, friends and family event Friday, pop-up Saturday at Cueva in Greenpoint, then Monday online release for the Mark Boutilier x Maximum Henry special edition belt. What else should people be looking for as we close?

Mark: The belt is definitely something—come out Saturday, it’ll be fun. I’m also anxious, a lot of moving parts, working toward the finish line, kind of scary in a world I’m not familiar with. Shout out Justin from Cueva and Sydney (Sydney in The Scene)—she’s been doing lots of support stuff. It's good to have a team; lots of friends helping out, event photography, pulling people together—a team effort, but I’m excited, think it’ll be cool.

Ben: I’ll be there, so anyone who wants to meet me, come hang. Thanks for spending time, Mark. This has been [SIC] Talks number 101, the return, first ever Substack Live. Let me know what you think (or don’t). Just don’t text me a link in the middle of the show because I’ll get distracted and accidentally leave the conversation. We’ve been talking to Mark Boutilier. Until next time, thanks again, Mark. I’ll see you Friday.

Mark: See ya.

Ben: Later.